Television Game Show Questions - Game Shows Part VI

00:00This is a very special episode, our Q&A episode of World's Greatest Con.

00:05I'm Brian Brushwood, joined live in studio by my co-creator, Justin Robert Young.

00:10How you doing, Justin? Great, Brian.

00:13I think I was 47 years old when this happened, and we had just released a major project.

00:27The second, in fact.

00:29It was after the second season of World's Greatest Con.

00:32My co-creator, Justin Robert Young, came to me and said, Hey, Brian, we need to do the Q&A.

00:40And it was at that moment I had a totally independent thought.

00:45We should do the Q&A.

00:47And that's when it all hit me that this would be our question and answer episode.

00:54The triumphant final crowning of our second season of World's Greatest Con.

00:59It's going to sound good with all the music.

01:03It's going to sound good.

01:07In fact, it just did.

01:09It just did sound good for everybody.

01:11Maybe before we even begin, we could talk about sort of the voice of a podcast and how it's something that you discover and not something you decide.

01:19Yeah, yeah, you find it.

01:21I mean, we certainly did not set out to make the voice of this show what it became.

01:27It was very much a product of, you know, I think kind of where we were.

01:33I mean, like it very much is a child of of the pandemic.

01:37Like it is it is a child of introspection and escapism and all these things that I think everybody was feeling during lockdown.

01:46And obviously, you know how much of the of your soul is kind of bared in the show.

01:51It suddenly occurs to me that somewhere is that very first recording, because all of this began with the phone call of you calling me randomly saying, hey, if you could have a show about anything, what would it be?

02:01I'd be like, oh, it'd be about World's Greatest Cons. Yeah.

02:04And then you immediately asked, great, what's the world's greatest con?

02:07And I was like, oh, it's got to be Operation Mincemeat.

02:10And you said, great, what's that?

02:11And I started to explain.

02:12I got about two sentences in and you were like, stop talking.

02:15I'm going to hang up.

02:17You're going to press record on a voice memo. Just talk. Yeah.

02:20And so it all began.

02:21And then that's where only iteratively do we get to the point where we had this kind of sweeping epic narrative, this mixture of small world and big world and personal and and historical that brought us to this moment, which gets me to the question I want to ask you, which was despite all of my confidence and bravado secretly, I wasn't entirely sure of myself when you asked, OK, we just covered the world defeating Hitler.

02:51What would you like to do next?

02:54And I said, how about this TV game shows?

02:59Yeah, I think when we were first spitballing for season two, the the biggest things that I think we couldn't have with a story as big as mincemeat is relatability or familiarity with the world.

03:17Like the fun thing about that story is the escapism of like, oh, what would it be like to be in this all or nothing thing?

03:25And bringing you to these worlds was was a really fun.

03:29The first season really could just as easily have been about the rebels plan to deceive Palpatine.

03:35You know that like that's how far our generation is from that. From that story.

03:41But if you have an element of familiarity or relatability, that is something that at least we hadn't done before.

03:48And also you need stakes.

03:50And that's where it's like I knew we had that with game shows.

03:53We had we had familiarity.

03:54We had relatability with game shows.

03:56Did we have the stakes?

03:58Like because no matter what, you can't beat Hitler twice.

04:02But like you, you have to have something that people care about.

04:06And that was my biggest the the the the nut that that eventually had to get cracked as we were into our research phase, which, by the way, comes after we decide what we're going to do, what we're going to do. Right.

04:20Like we already chartered the boats.

04:22We got the crew.

04:23We decided where we're going.

04:24And then comes the question. So what's there?

04:27Is it worth it? Yeah. Right.

04:29And and I think it was into the research for for the for the quiz show stuff when as soon as I think we cracked the reputational element of it, which is just not discussed at all.

04:43Well, and I think I was like, oh, we we got we got something there.

04:48There's there's there's a deeper there's some very good world's greatest con treasures in this in this genre.

04:54Well, and I think the beginning of episode one really speaks to that, where there are those who are familiar with the story of the scandal as it was unfolding.

05:04You know, some of our older listeners watched it as it unfolded live.

05:08Some folks had seen the movie in the 90s. Yeah.

05:11But you and I were really struck by just this one odd artifact of of the perjuring, and it's like nobody's really talking about that.

05:21And there are times in our process where we go back and we clarify, we rerecord, we get more precise answers.

05:28We discover what's there. Yeah.

05:31But almost a completely unbroken monologue in that hypnosis bit at the beginning of episode one.

05:39And much like in season one, that's the way it was when I spoke candidly about my brother. Yeah.

05:45But but in this case, it did help that I had traveled for 10 years with a hypnotist who I love dearly.

05:52And I think you commented later that it's like, yeah, that was a really good impression of a hypnotist show. So good.

05:59It makes me think it's not an impression.

06:01So it's somebody's actual show. You're just describing.

06:04Can we say we should say?

06:07Well, it was a blend of a couple of different hypnotists.

06:10But but the induction and the rhythm that I'm talking about is me channeling C. J. Johnson. Yeah.

06:16Shout out to C. J. Yeah.

06:17Somebody who I toured with to colleges.

06:20We actually toured with of all bands, Brooks and Dunn, Rascal Flats and Brad Paisley back in the day.

06:27And I got to hear that induction a lot. Yes. Yeah.

06:31No, I we ran into C. J.

06:34at a thing for your wife's art a few weeks ago.

06:38And it's the first time that I'd seen him since the episode came out.

06:41And I was like, so you heard the episode.

06:43And he's like, yeah, it's great.

06:45Like, how'd you like your entire act being exposed in our intro for the season?

06:49And he's like, oh, it's great.

06:51And I'm like, thank God. Oh, thank God.

06:54Very happy about that.

06:57You had the wisdom to ask that after it was published. Oh, yeah.

07:00It was too good to not to ask permission.

07:03Before we dive in on the specific questions, I do want to comment really quick that a side benefit as hard of a left turn as it was to go from Hitler to game shows, to go from a big story in chapters to small anthologies, that was such an important flex for our own storytelling benefit, because once you have set the spectrum, that wide. Yeah.

07:23That means that means we get to tell any tale of deception at any time.

07:28It could be current news.

07:29It could be past news.

07:31It could be firsthand accounts.

07:32It could be a speculation from third hand accounts and on and on and on. Yeah.

07:38And, you know, without we can't get into where we're where we're going.

07:42But, you know, there's there's a lot of stuff in the middle between those two points.

07:45And I'm very, very excited to to dig into it. All right.

07:48What questions we got?

07:50Let's focus on on the on the season that we just did.

07:54Edward wrote in wouldn't.

07:55And this is something that we get a lot.

07:57So I just figured we can address it.

07:58Wouldn't the world's greatest con be one that we don't know about?

08:01And they got away with it undetected.

08:03That would be number one, 100 percent correct.

08:07Number two, a very, very short podcast.

08:10So let's do it right now. Yeah.

08:13This is World's Greatest Con. I'm Brian Brushwood.

08:17Somewhere, somehow a con was pulled off so perfect that they got the most money and they never got caught. The end.

08:28This episode of World's Greatest Con has created by we can get a better help at it. OK. Yeah. All right. Chris writes.

08:44This is about episode one.

08:46A question that came to my mind that I wondered if you guys had any info on why did 21 broadcast live instead of recording it?

08:55This seems like they were opening themselves up to the risk of somebody going rogue instead of sticking to their lines without the luxury of editing or recording later on.

09:04Was this just because of the time period?

09:06Because I'm struggling to think of many game shows that air live.

09:12This is something that if you I find this stuff fascinating. Yeah.

09:17Because if you're young enough, that is a very sensible question. Yes.

09:21But if you're old enough, that is a hilarious question. Yeah. Right. It is.

09:25It is very similar to the question of, well, why didn't Michael Larson just put into a spreadsheet on his computer all of the serial numbers and he could just search on his iPad and he would find it immediately?

09:39By the way, I don't want to take anything away from the question.

09:42It is a good question.

09:43But to give historical context, this is what?

09:461964 or 1956, 1956.

09:48OK, so understand that at that time, television really is just radio with pictures. Yes.

09:56And magnetic tape storage was only barely getting discovered.

10:01In fact, it was not until after World War Two as people as the allies were looting German stores that they discovered high quality magnetic tape recorders.

10:12There were people whose contracts stipulated that they absolutely would only do their show live because it sounded like garbage if it was ever recorded. Yeah.

10:22There were some video recorders that would use.

10:24And this part I might get wrong because we're not fact checking and all that stuff.

10:29We're doing this live to tape.

10:31But but a single like thread of steel that they would use magnetic recordings on.

10:36But all pretty much anything you see from the 1950s is I'm going to look at our producer, John, who might know.

10:44I think it's called a kinetoscope.

10:46Is that what it's called?

10:48John Hess from Filmmaker IQ has a wonderful series on all of this stuff.

10:53And I'm certain he would know the specific answer.

10:55I think it's called a kinetoscope.

10:57But basically, it's just a straight up television broadcasting here in America, NTSC over in Europe.

11:03It would be pal 24 frames per second. It gets technical.

11:07But they would straight up just have a film camera pointed at a television.

11:11That's how we have all of the footage from I Love Lucy.

11:14It's how we have all of the footage from any of the game shows.

11:18That is a film camera pointed at a live radio. Yeah. Yeah.

11:21So so understand that there are significant technological barriers at the time, and it's remarkable that we have as much as we do.

11:29The first commercially successful VCR.

11:32Have any idea on when it was released to the public?

11:37I know that the most from a legal perspective, important VCR was in the 1970s, the Betamax, because it went all the way to the Supreme Court forcing the Betamax decision in which time shifting your programming became allowed.

11:52So I'll go out on a limb and say Betamax by Sony.

11:571956, the same year that we are talking about for the quiz show scandals.

12:02Any idea on what it cost of?

12:05Well, adjusted for inflation, I'll say all the money, all of it. Yes. Fifty thousand dollars. Holy moly.

12:14Fifty thousand dollars is what they is, is what they went for.

12:17And this is something that I covered on the Raise the Dead podcast.

12:21But like if you really look at John F.

12:24Kennedy's master mastery of the media and his team's mastery of the media, it's not in the the debates, which I think are misinterpreted and overhyped, but rather that he bought one of those VCRs so that he could essentially watch the dailies.

12:38Not only could he record and critique his own performance and continue to refine it, but they also would cut those packages.

12:47They would cut packages for local news.

12:50And so they would send 15, 30 second and minute clips, knowing that those were the holes that would go into packages.

12:58That's they would send that to television stations that would be in their interest with clips with the messages they wanted to get out to those voters.

13:07How remarkable that 50 years later, that's one of the most reviled practices out there because it turns the news into propaganda where somebody else does your job for you. Yep.

14:48Alex writes, I just finished listening to episode one and episode two and the immediate question.

14:57had was, what was the outcome on the television industry?

15:00I think specifically with the quiz show scandals.

15:03Did the FCC issue some kind of rule or law book for game shows?

15:08Is there some mysterious game show host guild that runs the game show New World Order?

15:12Or is it somewhat of a Wild West when it comes to feeding answers and the honor system?

15:19Actually, no, that was Connor, not Alex, I apologize.

15:22That's one of those that I'm just as curious as you are into the specifics of it, but early in the process, I wanted desperately to go all the way in the weeds on this stuff, to explore the question of game show itself is a curious phrase, because if it's a game that makes it a sport, which means prearranging the outcome is a crime, if it's a show, then it's professional wrestling, in which case it's no different than Shakespeare and anything goes, right?

15:51Reality programming is a show, but then you get into weird territory, like your America's Got Talents or any kind of competition show that is a game show, which is technically a sport.

16:02And so, ultimately, early in the process, we realized that getting too far in the weeds would probably not make for good, fun, simple stories.

16:12It is a good episode.

16:14It just wasn't that episode. Right.

16:16It was, as soon as we found the reputational element and you kind of realize that, oh, wait, there's a cost for people to be living a lie in their most famous moment.

16:31And as we found out in episode one, everyone before Dan Annerite had been trading on that.

16:38Dan Annerite was the first one where the bill came due, and Dan Annerite, I'd hate to give credit to where it's due, but that dude had the sense to leave the country for a little bit and come back and pretend nothing happened.

16:53I do have some information on this.

20:37All right, 18-ish years ago, writes Grant.

20:39My best friend and I were out at a hypnotist show in Waterloo.

20:49The selection trick was having your hands stuck together, and my friend was committed.

20:55He couldn't get them apart even after not getting selected, even with my help.

21:01Being as he was like a brother to me, I let him suffer until he sorted it all out, even finished his beer for him. What's family for?

21:08If I hadn't been a poor student at the time, I'd have bought the showman around, if only for the side entertainment that he gave me.

21:16Turns out my friend went to another show later that year, got picked, did the humiliating things, convinced himself he was really out of control, and took a month for his trigger phrases to wear off.

21:26He gets his validation now doing semi-amateur stand-up shows.

21:29Can't wait to hear what else you have this season, and you definitely triggered some fun memories with these framing devices.

21:36If there's one regret I have about that opening, it's that hypnotism itself unfairly gets collapsed into one concept when it's really many different concepts in very different situations.

21:47I spoke very specifically about why the pressure, the social pressure to comply is so important to a stage hypnotist act.

21:57Now having said that, even stage hypnotists maybe, and I've spoken to several, they all agree that in general that's how it goes, and that's why reliably they can put on a show.

22:13But let's say one in 100 people, one in 100 humans, so say once every three shows, you get somebody who truly is very, very good at instantly going into what I believe is called a hypnagogic state.

22:25And when people ask what hypnosis is, is it real, I always ask them, have you ever cried at a movie, ever laughed at a movie?

22:34And I say, great, congratulations, you've been hypnotized.

22:37You're laughing at a thing that never happened to people who never existed.

22:39This is a fantasy that you were guided to make real in your mind, real enough that you had a physical response to it, right?

22:46As you would imagine, various people have different abilities to instantly access that state.

22:51I think that that's part of what makes actors particularly skilled and talented at what they do, because they're told in exactly two minutes you're gonna need to visualize and experience the death of your father, and go, on cue, right?

23:06That's very, some people can do that, some people cannot.

23:10So to the stage hypnotist, when they encounter somebody who easily slips all the way into a hypnagogic state, oil boy, do they have a good time?

23:19Because there's, like, that's the part where the stage hypnotist is having as much fun as the audience.

23:26And so to your friend, I would encourage you, the way I described it made it sound like it's only the social pressure cue that is making it happen, but please allow for, because the way the hand-sticking-together experiment works is that they give you two conflicting commands.

23:42One is the harder you try to pull your hands apart, the more they will be stuck together.

23:48And if you are truly trying your best to follow instructions, then quite literally, if you have the right type of brain for it, you will experience this unreal, supernatural, like, the harder I'm pulling apart, the more they stick together, I don't understand it, which, of course, is the social proof that gets you to go up on stage, and there's only more social proof.

24:10And then from that point forward, we're closer to the story as I told it.

24:14But please trust me when I say, boy, oh boy, don't reduce all hypnotism to my story.

24:18My story is a rough outline of why, in general, stage hypnotism works.

24:23As an entertainment form.

24:24As a reliable entertainment form.

24:26Reliably can go in the same way that you can sing a song, and you can do a dance, you can also do these things, but that's what you were describing.

24:37I will double down on the surreality of the vast majority of people on stage, in general, tend to have never been on stage before, they've never entered the so-called flow state of being totally present in the moment, only thinking of performing and doing what's funny, and there truly is, after the show's over, this amnesiac effect.

24:54Most performers have experienced it, but if you ain't performed, then it's gonna feel like weird hypno-magic to you. Yeah.

25:03Maren wrote in, do you think a lot of people who perpetrate cons have an inflated sense of their own intelligence, or that they assume others are less intelligent based off their own wants?

25:15I personally think that it's a combination of the two.

25:18As you say on the show, they try and target dishonest people, but the story in our fourth episode, and that was our Carrie Ketchum password episode, makes me question a lot of this, because surely he would have realized that he would be recognized on television, right?

25:34Well, let's start with that specific case.

25:36That is straight up a cornered rat, and if you have ever seen Los Angeles television be interrupted for a live car chase, you see every manner of crazy move tried in the last desperate moments before they know they're gonna be captured by the police.

25:54You see them moving from one car to another, jumping over fences, hiding in crazy places, and all that stuff.

26:00To me, that's where Carrie Ketchum was at. Yes, calculated risk.

26:03Hopefully I'll have the money by the time this airs, and I'll be out of town.

26:08Turns out, not so much.

26:10I also think that this is something that ages differently.

26:13Like, in that realm, even in the 80s, and yes, at that point, there were, the concept of media permanence was kind of beginning to dawn.

26:22Like you said, that is more the age of Betamax and stuff like that, so the concept of this is kind of there.

26:32I do think that fundamentally, we think of media in a different way, where now, if somebody were in that situation that Ketchum was, it would not be if, it would be when somebody would find it, because even though there is as much media as there's ever been, it's all recorded effectively forever, and somebody would see it, and somebody would share it going forward.

26:58Well, and there's a soft target on one of my other podcasts, we're doing a re-watch of the original Miami Vice series, a show that was originally shot in standard definition, I guess on film, but broadcast at standard definition on four by three, never recorded, never replayed, just on a Friday night, you caught it or you didn't, and it is so much fun, knowing just a little bit about production, to press pause on Don Johnson's face and look, zoom in on his sunglasses, and then screen capture, and snarkily text to all my friends, like, nice shot of the boom operator, eh? Yeah.

27:36All this stuff that nowadays we would think of, but there was no reason to think of back in the day.

27:44No, no, absolutely not.

27:45I actually screwed up and did not get the name for this one, so apologies to the person who wrote this, but it's true that 21 was the best known of the rig shows, to the point that probably most people that know of these things think of it first, if you mention the quiz show scandals, but I think it would have been worth mentioning another show called Dotto, which was a quiz based on Connect the Dots.

28:05I don't know if this came up during your research. Indeed it did.

28:08It was just, you know, not the story that we would tell.

28:12And to pull back the curtain a little bit on the process, you see this in season one.

28:19The reason we have it split into four chapters is because each of the four chapters teaches a different lesson about the way our brains are flawed and a different lesson about the underworld and a different chapter of the big story.

28:33So in this case, we have independent stories.

28:36You'll notice that all five in the anthology, the first one begins with the landscape, the why do we care, and this is the powerful abusing the weak.

28:44And then the second one is the weak breaking the game of the powerful and the consequences of the type of brain that can do that, what happens to them.

28:54The third episode is, I might've gotten a little bit fired up about the heist pulled in that one.

28:59The fourth episode is, to my mind, my favorite, because it's the uncomfortable question of what happens when a bad guy does good?

29:08Answer, he still gets screwed.

29:10And then the fifth episode is just a straight up whodunit where we get to explore why memory is so flawed.

29:18And so in that framework, when we get two stories that are similar enough, we kinda have to pick a winner and a loser for that chapter.

29:29Now it doesn't mean we can't go back and tell that story in a different season, in a different context.

29:34It really is the beginning of that story.

29:37It was just a decision to kinda skip further down the road so we were closer to the kind of big, I mean, to the world we spend most of the time in.

29:46Yeah, it really, the decision was made with that episode that the real conflict was between Stemple and Enright.

29:53And to do that.

29:54We just need to start with Enright and then shortly after introduced Temple.

29:57But for Dotto, the story of Dotto is fascinating.

30:00It's another Enright, Barry and Enright production.

30:02They were indeed cheating.

30:04And the way that the entire grand jury that eventually plays a big, pivotal role in our episode got started was because a dude said he was he lost on Dotto because his opponent had the answers and the way he knew it was because she had written down all of the answers.

30:22And he found it in her diary, which she had left backstage. Oh, wow.

30:27And so that's what gets the ball rolling for the grand jury.

30:31And that's a fascinating thing.

30:33I'm glad we're able to talk about it now, because if you really like the season, you should know this because it is very interesting.

30:41But it wasn't the story that we were telling, which was about reputation and all that.

30:45And that's that's why we got right into where we got. Yeah. Oh.

33:23Justin writes, I had a friend in the army whose wife was from North Pole, Alaska.

33:30He gets drug into an office one day and threatened with Article 15.

33:37Punishment in the military where they reduce your rank, fine you and make you do extra work because they believed he had falsified a form.

33:46Turns out when he listed his wife's residence as North Pole, somebody thought he was being funny, didn't bother to check if it was a real place or not.

33:55This was in 2001 and nobody had a smartphone for instant fact checking, but still, if it makes you feel any better.

34:03I was one year earlier when I found out that North Pole was a place to that's amazing, though.

34:09All right, this is a great one.

34:12Marco writes here in Switzerland.

34:14Everything's a bit smaller and slower.

34:16So were our game shows and the stakes.

34:19In 1999, Tommaso Raimondo was caught cheating on the popular game show Riskyo.

34:25They did the training sessions with the audience, but fake candidates had real questions, so a helper wrote the right answers down and hid them for the actual contestant behind a toilet.

34:38That candidate reviewed the answer, memorized them so he could play on the show.

34:44It blew up because he got mixed up on the order of the answers and gave the answer confidently to the next question. Oh, no.

34:56So let's say, for example, he gave the answer to question number five, right?

35:02So like the first question is like, what's the capital of Arizona?

35:06And I say, George Washington Carver.

35:08And the next one is who invented the peanut?

35:11The next question, which, oh, man, Das isch de Fussballer Moldovan Gies. Nailed it.

35:17Which apparently was so popular, became such a meme.

35:24It was made into a song that was popular in Switzerland because this was its own little mini scandal.

35:35They finished the recording and even aired the show.

35:37But it led to an investigation and a trial where it was revealed that he and his two friends had pulled a stunt like this a few years earlier as well.

35:47Our national television was scolded for naivete and the people got sentences on probation on the TV side.

35:52The only consequence was, as far as it's publicly known, that they used a different set of questions going forward for preparation. Wow. Probably smart. You know what?

36:00It's a good change.

36:02Seems like you should do that.

36:04It's astonishing how I mean, this is one of those human moments, right?

36:09It's not only the humanity that gets us to fall for the scams, but it's also the humanity that reveals the frauds. Yeah, yeah.

36:16But it was one of those things where I looked at it and I was like, oh, man, we should do like a little mini episode or something.

36:25But you really can't pull foreign language stuff and have it have it play.

36:28What's funny is I have a personal anecdote that I really want to share right now about accidentally becoming complicit in a fraud giveaway.

36:35We're going to save it because it's a really good story. That's correct.

36:39It's going to be a really good intro one day.

36:43And we don't want to burn it in the Q&A episode.

36:46That is that is the face of white knuckle restraint for Brian Brunson.

36:49This is as good as it gets.

36:51Finally, last question, Joey wrote, do serial numbers on one dollar bills have a pattern?

36:56Like if it's printed in New York, does it start with a certain series of numbers?

37:03And if it's printed at another mint, would it start with another series of numbers?

37:07Could it be possible that the radio contest for Michael Larson was unwinnable, that they were using totally random numbers that could never be created?

37:14I think we had to do the thing we where we were just careful on our language to make sure we're accurate. We don't know.

37:24OK, yeah, that's that's that's we can find no confirmation of the exact rules of the conference.

37:28We can find no confirmation of the exact rules of the contest.

37:32And so but we do know for a fact that involved the radio calling out some random numbers.

37:38If you had the bill that matched it, you won.

37:41And you do the math.

37:43Michael Larson certainly thought he would win and pull this off.

37:47Effectively, the bulk of that story comes from the common law wife.

37:51She is the one that that drives the the narrative in the game show documentary.

37:56And by all accounts, we are we are trusting her at her word that that is the reason why there was all these bills that he had removed from the bank.

38:09And it's worth noting that as we're recording this, we are the second season.

38:14This is the first one that we've done our best to convert into a full on YouTube.

38:21Think piece video essay with lots of visuals and stuff.

38:25So right now, I'm in the middle of getting a lot of emails that have strong opinions as to exactly how somebody would know all that cash was there on that night and specifically casting aspersions on the common law wife.

38:37And I have responded.

38:38Tell me if I'm wrong on this, that that you that your take is that it's a small town.

38:45It's not rocket science.

38:46If you knew the money is in there, it ain't exactly Bel Air.

38:51Like it ain't exactly Brentwood.

38:52He was he was not living in a in a super rich area.

38:57He was probably the most famous person in town.

39:00And word gets around really, really, really fast.

39:02If $50,000 in loose bills are laying around.

41:56Before we go, though, although this is traditionally the end of our season, I do think that we can tease out the fact that we're going to have a feed drop next week. Yeah.

42:09So for those who are not familiar with the term, what does that mean for them?

42:14That's when another amazing podcast allows us to put one of their awesome episodes in our feed.

42:20And we will, in turn, also be able to have our podcast be played for all of their audience.

42:27As a matter of fact, a pretty good chunk of the folks listening right now.

42:32All it was entirely because Jack Reisider over at Darknet Diaries just decided I was like, hey, man, can you give a plug or whatever?

42:39He's like, no, I'm just going to drop the whole episode in.

42:42And I was like, that that works as well. Yeah, sure. It's OK. Thank you, Jack.

42:46Big shout out to Jack. What a hero. What a hero. What a legend. But also.

42:50Within the next few weeks, this won't be the last time that you hear Brian's voice.

42:55We're going to have maybe a little interview.

43:00Yeah, I don't want to give details out, but if you liked season one and you want to hear somebody very qualified to talk to me about season one, maybe in the context of something else, stick around, because I think I might have an interview with someone.

43:18Yeah, we really want to reward you guys because you have been so great to this show.

43:25You've been so supportive of getting this, getting this out there.

43:29So any extra content that we can bring you in between seasons is something that we're always going to strive to do.

43:36And before we wrap up one thing, the most important thing is if anybody knows whether it's McFadden or McFadden, please let me know, because we've found examples of both all over the place.

43:45And you can hear we recorded some one way, some the other way. Well, we eventually.

43:53Easiest thing would be if somebody knows Matthew, it could just reach out.

43:57You can really just have him contact us directly.

44:00That would be the best world's greatest kind of Gmail dot com. The liar man.

44:04But if you want, look, that's that's out there.

44:07The liar man is ready. It is. It is poised.

44:10OK, thank you to everybody for the support.

44:13Don't be shy about reaching out to both of us on Twitter. I'm at Schwed. That's S. H. W. O. O. D.

44:19Justin is at Justin R.

44:20Young, all spelled the way it sounds. Thank you, guys.

44:23As you continue to make dreams come true.

44:25Know that in our hearts, the world's greatest con was when you made us fall in love with you. Too cheesy. Yeah. OK.

44:34Do they do the do the line? Well, we were. Oh, hold on. Hmm. OK. You know what?

44:42I suspect someday there'll be a convention where we'll meet face to face.

44:49And when that happens, it will.

44:52the world's greatest con you don't want to do no God's don't fool us cuz you're stupid okay third take third take till then just remember people cons don't fool us because we're stupid they fool us because we're human and everything that we're pulling on you just might be the world's greatest con love you guys diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this broker dog and pony show audio