Q Ships

00:00This is World's Greatest Con. I'm Brian Brushwood.

00:06You're on the deck of a ship when you see the tide begin to turn.

00:12The sun's sitting high in the North Atlantic sky.

00:16The fog's settling in on the coast of Ireland.

00:20The wind sends a shiver up your spine.

00:24Eh, you head inside.

00:26I mean, they're serving lunch soon.

00:29The interior of this luxury liner is gorgeous.

00:34Top of the line.

00:36The best 1915 has to offer. Mmm, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. What to eat.

00:41You want to go with the roast beef with Yorkshire pudding or grilled lamb chops with the mint sauce?

00:48I mean, these are the big decisions in life. Waiter! Waiter!

00:52I'll have a Tom Collins.

00:54In fact, bring two. I drink fast. Yes, sir.

00:58Also, nobody taxes tips. Wink!

01:00The stock market has been rather volatile lately.

01:04Not that you're trying.

01:05Have you had the chance to meet Mr. Vanderbilt?

01:08But now you overhear some of the conversations happening all around you.

01:12The newspapers in London warned about the dangers of crossing the Atlantic these days.

01:16One can only hope they're exaggerating.

01:18It's May of 1915.

01:20And yes, things have been better for Europe.

01:23I mean, we're in the middle of the second year of the Great War. It's nasty stuff.

01:27But we are Americans.

01:29This ship is coming from New York to Liverpool, baby.

01:35None of this war nonsense has Jack to do with us.

01:40Fellow rich people, raise your glasses.

01:44To this dumb war having nothing to do with...

01:52Just as that glass touches your lips, a boom strikes.

02:01The ship has been hit by a torpedo.

02:06You could watch the panic setting in.

02:11People start to run and scream.

02:14And before you know it, there's another bigger explosion.

02:18They taunted the Germans.

02:19And now we'll all pay with our lives.

02:22You were warned before you boarded that there was intense U-boat activity in the region.

02:28And Germany said they're gonna sink any military vessels they find.

02:32They should have never used this ship for ammunition.

02:35But this isn't a military vessel. I'm an American. Wait.

02:39This was a ruse.

02:42The military used this ship to transfer ammunition.

02:47And they bet that the U-boats, the silent killer of the seas...

02:54They were betting they just wouldn't attack us?

02:57And now we'll all pay with our lives.

03:00Now you're up to your knees in water.

03:03Passengers rushing past you.

03:05They're scrambling to reach the lifeboats.

03:08But there's no time. Chaos reigns.

03:13The water's up to your chest.

03:19You realize there's no time to look for help.

03:22The grandfather clock from the corner is now floating past you and it's as good a chance as you've got.

03:28So you grab it like there's no tomorrow.

03:31Around you screams fill the air.

03:33But they're getting quieter.

03:35In that instant, you know with every fiber of your being...

03:43You are about to die.

03:47And then you see why.

03:50Rising above the water, approaching the wreckage of your ship like a hunter claiming its prey. There it is. A German U-boat.

04:08They're scanning the wreckage to scope out survivors.

04:12They are relentless, methodical, and ruthless.

04:14One can only hope they're exaggerating.

04:17And that's the last thing you remember seeing.

04:27As you fall under the waves...

04:31The water fills your lungs... And you're gone.

04:38Of the nearly 2,000 passengers of the RMS Lusitania, over 1,000 of them died off the coast of Ireland on that May afternoon.

04:54And it turned the global tide against Germany in what we now refer to as World War I.

05:01That German U-boat wasn't the first submarine.

05:05But that boat is by far the most advanced execution of the concept to date.

05:11It's got electric batteries, internal combustion engines.

05:14It allows for range and depth that nobody could match.

05:18And as far as anyone in 1915 knows...

05:21That thing equals unrestricted access to anything in the sea.

05:26Including the ship, smuggling munitions that you just died on.

05:32But this is not a story about the Lusitania.

05:37This is a story about tricking death itself.

05:43Germany's U-boats have unleashed full psychological terror. They are silent. They are unseen. They are violent.

05:56The British Navy wants the standard for maritime combat? Can't compete.

06:03They don't have the time or resources to out-engineer the Germans.

06:09The British Navy is desperate for any relief.

06:13And they find one by using a deadly ruse.

06:18The Germans may have the knack when it comes to engineering.

06:23But they're going to find out all too late that cons don't fool us because we're stupid.

06:28They fool us because we're human.

06:30They're going to outfit merchant ships and train crews to play the parts of hapless sailors terrified to die.

06:37But when the Germans come to arrest and loot their prey...

06:40They're going to find out all too late that the British still have tricks up their sleeves.

06:47How do you fool enemy soldiers so confident in their technologies that they'll target anything that moves between two continents?

06:55By turning your biggest weakness into your most agile strength.

06:59It's a tale of deception on the high seas so good it might just be...

07:07The World's Greatest Con.

07:10The World's Greatest Con.

07:14You're standing on the conning tower of your U-boat.

07:54The sea is relatively calm, just a gentle swell rocking your submarine.

07:58You're in the South Irish Sea policing a blockade of shipping lines going into Britain.

08:03I mean the Brits did it first to Germany with their fleet of ships starving out our military and worse yet our civilians.

08:12But they didn't fully understand the power of the U-boat.

08:16Nobody can match the surface vessels of the Royal Navy.

08:21But to them submarines are just defensive tools. U-boats...

08:25So to answer the British blockade, the Kaiser gave the word.

08:32Germany brought unrestricted submarine warfare to the Atlantic to create our own blockade.

08:44Any ship headed to the United Kingdom, that's our business.

08:51And then you see it.

08:54A lone merchant ship. An easy target.

09:00You give the order.

09:03The U-boat surfaces and you approach the vessel cautiously.

09:10You feel the thrum of the diesel engines roaring to life.

09:17You grin as the boat cuts through the water leaving a frothy wake behind.

09:23And as you get closer the picture gets clearer.

09:26You note the ship's name, the flag.

09:29Looks like a plain Jane British cargo ship.

09:32You bark an order to the gun crew to prepare for action.

09:38Because your plan is to give the merchant crew a chance to abandon ship before you sink it.

09:45With your U-boat fully surfaced, you order a warning shot across the bow of this merchant vessel.

09:52The shell splashes into the water.

09:54A giant plume of spray goes into the air.

09:58The merchant ship stops.

09:59And you see the crew frantically lowering lifeboats into the water.

10:04You nod, allow yourself a wry smile.

10:08And you order the U-boat to close in for the kill.

10:15The deck gun is ready.

10:16The crew is standing by waiting for your order to fire.

10:20God, that moment of satisfaction.

10:23Yet another victory for the mighty German Empire.

10:26But as you get closer, something feels off.

10:30The ship's crew, the merchants, they're not rowing away.

10:36Instead they swing their lifeboats back towards the ship.

10:41Your eyes widen in realization as you see the hidden panels on the merchant ship slide open. Revealing gun barrels.

10:53It's a trap and you're going to die.

10:56And it's all because of a decision made months ago by the Royal Navy Brass.

11:04No one's sure who had the idea first.

11:07But amongst the hopelessness of the U-boat supremacy comes a Hail Mary.

11:12The 17th century concept of mystery ships.

11:14It all boils down to one simple idea.

11:17Pretend a ship is one thing. Make it another.

11:21But here's the modern World War I twist. Add machine guns.

11:27We make a gunship look like a merchant ship.

11:30A U-boat comes creeping up trying to enforce their blockade.

11:35But torpedoes are expensive and bullets are cheap.

11:37They're going to surface and intend to sink the boat with the guns.

11:41But just before they do... A boom!

11:44We reveal our hidden machine guns and sink their sub.

11:48And in that meeting of the Royal Navy Brass, the idea didn't do well.

11:56Deception wasn't unheard of in warfare, but in the Navy it's pretty unconventional.

12:04And not to mention risky.

12:07They see all this as a waste of resources.

12:11Wouldn't this sort of stunt just triple the burn rate, ammunition, ships and soldiers all in one go?

12:19Those three resources were too valuable and far too limited to risk on your black box theater production.

12:26And the arguments didn't stop there.

12:28What would happen if the Germans caught on to the ruse?

12:33That whole element of surprise, that's going to be lost.

12:37And the Q-ships are suddenly sitting ducks in dangerous waters.

12:41On top of that, some of the British Navy's most decorated soldiers objected on moral grounds.

12:46After all, war has to have some kind of rules, right?

12:50Weren't they stooping down to Germany's level by just trying to deceive the U-boat leaders?

12:56It seems beneath them somehow.

12:58I could just see one of the Royal Navy officers taking a big old pull on a pipe and standing up.

13:08Oh, you think we're wasting men, weapons, ships?

13:11You know what we're really wasting right now? Time.

13:13This is an unstoppable threat unless we try something.

13:18The brass agrees to try it.

13:21The boat is retrofitted.

13:23The crew's recruited for their aptitude and cast for their acting ability. Their acting ability.

13:33And one day, what looks like a sad little merchant ship heads into the Irish Sea, 60 miles from exactly where the Lusitania sank.

13:44And only its crew knows that it's actually the HMS Prince Charles.

13:49The crew tenses when they see a periscope, and the captain's heart begins to race when he sees the U-boat surface.

13:58The Germans fire a warning shot across the bow, and a fake evacuation is ordered just to bait them in.

14:05And just as the Germans disembark, the captain gives the order. Fire at will.

14:10Which brings us back to you.

14:12Quoting history's greatest admiral, you shout, It's a trap!

14:16But it's too late.

14:20The disguised British Q-ship opens fire with a devastating broadside.

14:28Shells scream through the air, exploding on your hull.

14:33The deck gun is hit.

14:36Men are thrown overboard by the blast.

14:39You order a crash dive.

14:41But the damage is too severe.

14:44The U-boat starts to actually sink.

14:46Water is pouring in through ruptured compartments.

14:48Grab a handrail, your knuckles white, the hull creaks.

14:51Finally, with a shuddering groan, the U-boat succumbs to the depths.

14:55You take one final, desperate breath, and the last thing you hear is the sound of your beloved vessel being crushed by the relentless pressure of the deep ocean.

15:14Yep, we killed you twice, first-person style, and before the 20-minute mark.

15:19And it's going to happen again, three more times, but we'll get there.

15:35Gruesome stuff, but that is World War I.

15:38To this point in history, the world had never seen such a staggering loss of life in combat.

15:45By the end of this war, an estimated 15 to 22 million people are gonna die.

15:52Up to 11 million military personnel and up to 12 million civilian casualties.

15:56Compare those numbers to the previous title holders for bloodiest wars.

16:01The American Civil War had just over a half million deaths.

16:07And before that, the Franco-Prussian War only had 187,000 deaths.

16:12The difference, technology, machine guns, powerful artillery, poison gas, tanks, aircraft, barbed wire, and of course, the U-boat.

16:19This is the lesson of World War I, and we should never forget it.

16:27No two ways about it, it's depressing.

16:32The kind of unrelenting darkness that triggers gallows humor.

16:39Wanna know what isn't depressing?

16:41The Totally Validated Theory on Q-Ships!

16:44The Prince Charles attack happens in July of 1915, and what follows is a hot Q-Ship summer.

16:53The unmitigated arrogance of the German menace taking loss after loss after tasty, tasty loss.

17:03By September of 1915, up to 15 U-boats have fallen, including one ultra-violent example that's gonna become world famous.

17:11In the English Channel on August 19th, 1915, a Q-Ship named the HMS Baralong drifts through the waves disguised as an American merchant vessel.

17:23Sure enough, one of those U-boats that's harassing cargo ships surfaces.

17:29The U-boat commander spots what seems to be an easy target.

17:35Onboard the Baralong, the crew waits.

17:38Their orders are clear.

17:40Remain calm, play the part, and wait for that U-boat to close in.

17:45The British sailors, disguised as American merchant seamen, move about the deck, keeping up the ruse.

17:51The captain of the U-boat, believing this ship to be American and thus neutral, makes a fateful decision.

17:58He pulls his vessel close.

18:01Since America hasn't entered the war, the German crew would likely raid the ship instead of sinking it.

18:09Then, in an instant, the trap is sprung.

18:12The American flag disappears, and the British ensign is hoisted, revealing their true identity.

18:18Panels on the Q-Ship's deck drop away, revealing hidden guns.

18:21The crew of the Q-Ship opens fire with deadly accuracy, and the U-boat begins to sink.

18:28Survivors from the U-boat struggle to abandon their doomed vessel.

18:32Some of them swim their way to a nearby British freighter, but the British were in no mood for mercy.

18:40Orders were given, so those German sailors who had escaped were shot. Bullets fly.

18:45Acrid smoke fills the air.

18:47Eyeballs come bursting out of faces.

18:49Head shot left, head shot right.

18:51You can barely see through the thick fog of gunpowder.

18:54Blood on the deck! For real.

18:57It is an actual horror show.

19:00Also, by the way, all those deaths were in third person.

19:06I'm keeping to my claim that I'm gonna kill you three more times than the first person.

19:14So none of those count.

19:23I mean, they count. They're all humans. You get it.

19:31In all seriousness, this encounter between the HMS Baralong and the U-27 became a brutal and decisive flashpoint.

19:36It sparks outrage and controversy when news of the incidents reaches not just Germany, but the United States as well.

19:44It's a false flag operation, which is generally frowned upon in actual military circles.

19:51Also, it insinuates that the Americans were cool with it because why would the British use an American flag unless they knew their allies wouldn't be upset?

20:03And the brutality on the ship was above and beyond.

20:07That moment still lives in history as unnecessarily violent.

20:11Meanwhile, the Q ships end 1915 as the underdog on top.

20:15Storytelling has topped engineering.

20:16Unfortunately for the Royal Navy, that feeling is going to be fleeting.

20:22A damaged U-boat that survived a Q ship attack barely makes it back to port.

20:29These are the first survivors of the ruse.

20:35And now the cat's out of the bag.

20:40All right, short pause here.

20:43I don't know if you've noticed, but up until now, every single story we've told on this program, we have hammered on one thing.

20:50A great con has asymmetries.

20:52The con man gets to over-prepare to create that opening vignette, that tableau.

21:03And the victim only has one trick, a strong gut feeling that something isn't right.

21:09And that's exactly what's happening right here.

21:12The U-boats are the marks and the Q ships are the con artists.

21:18But let's pull back one level above them.

21:22The German and the British Navy leadership.

21:25This is the first story where we have parody.

21:30Both sides know the game.

21:33The Brits know that the Germans have invented essentially invisible ships.

21:38And now the Germans know that the Brits are excellent foolers.

21:43This is where the game of deception escalates to a balanced game of deception.

21:51And weirdly, the thing it reminds me the most of is 2am at any magic convention.

22:01I'm assuming most of you guys haven't been to a magic convention, which is fine.

22:07Because if you don't care about the secrets, then a lot of it is just going to be boring.

22:16Because when magicians start performing for other magicians, the rules change.

22:22They begin to unfold.

22:24Routines that are designed not necessarily to entertain, but to fool.

22:26More than that, fool all the people who know all the secrets.

22:30It's hard to do.

22:32What you got to understand about magicians is by God, we're all junkies.

22:37Every one of us is chasing that high of the first time we were fooled.

22:46And so we keep escalating.

22:48We keep coming up with more advanced techniques, more ridiculous systems.

22:53We keep learning more.

22:55And you won't see that any more clearly than around 2.

22:5930 in the morning in the hotel lobby of the convention.

23:04Because this is the moment where a few drinks in, you might see a magician pull out a deck of cards and say, I saw something interesting.

23:16You ever see this?

23:18And if it's a good enough trick, then suddenly you got 17 people around you saying, do it again, do it again, do it again.

23:26These are magicians gathered around doing their best to find the secret, but they can't.

23:31The guy's doing the same trick again and again and again, then again with your deck, then with a stack of business cards.

23:38All they want is one new secret, like it felt the first time when they had stolen fire from the gods.

23:47As you dial in closer and closer about the technical wizardry you just saw, you increase the odds that you might miss something dead simple.

23:56I know this because I missed something stupidly simple once, and it haunts me to this day.

24:03So it's 1995, and this 17 year old kid says to me, oh, I got one for you here.

24:12Here, just, just pick one.

24:14Reach forward, pick a card, who cares?

24:19He's like, just put it anywhere. It doesn't matter.

24:23And I put it anywhere, and he turns it over and does a series of moves.

24:29I'm watching like a hawk.

24:30Okay, he's got, that's the mechanic's grip, maybe a modified urdinase.

24:34Is this going to be like a double deal? A second deal?

24:39Wait, was that a real cut or a false cut?

24:42And the kid starts turning over cards a few at a time, separating the deck into two piles.

24:49And sure enough, I see my card again, but I am not going to give anything away.

24:57No tells, I am focused.

24:59He's now down to seven cards in front of me, face up.

25:03I know which one's mine, and by God, I'm not going to let him figure out which one it is.

25:10And he starts eliminating cards until finally there's only two left.

25:14And with absolute confidence, he puts his finger on one remaining card, the one I randomly selected, and pushes it towards me. I am fooled.

25:23I just got totally burned.

25:24So my brain starts running like a robot, trying to remember every subtlety I know of.

25:33And this is when the 17-year-old kid starts cackling.

25:39And I'm like, what did I miss?

25:44That was as fair as it could possibly be.

25:49He says, are you serious?

25:51You're not messing with me right now, right?

25:55And I'm like, no, I'm not messing with you.

25:59That is, I, please, do you mind sharing?

26:02And he says simply, when you picked a card, the deck was face up.

26:08I just watched which one you took.

26:11Then I did a bunch of other random moves, and you were so lost in that game, you forgot how you even selected the card.

26:22It's one of my favorite moments in any game of balanced deception.

26:28When you got two players deceiving each other, it's not just about the technical ability to turn your ships invisible.

26:36It's not just about your narrative prowess of luring them too close into a trap.

26:41You also need to remember what they remember, and when.

26:45When both parties are equally matched in the rules of the game, the one thing you don't want is a blind spot.

26:54But the more complicated the problem, the tighter you focus on those micro details, and the more you lose focus on the macro ones.

27:04This is a problem in any field that involves deception.

27:08But this same game is the problem for cybersecurity, espionage, and of course, both Germany and Britain in our story.

27:15The British are about to learn that some cons are more durable than others.

27:21See, I got fooled by the 17-year-old kid, but of course now, I'd never get fooled by that again.

27:29Some things aren't built to last forever.

27:33It's 1916, and the Royal Navy has a grin a mile wide.

27:39Their Q-ships have a reputation for unbridled success.

27:42Not only have they put a pause in the unrelenting aggression of those nasty U-boats, but now they're doing it with style.

27:50It's so exciting that old sailors looking for adventure begin to volunteer and staff the ships.

28:03One of those is Heart of Darkness author Joseph Connery.

28:06And by the way, he does this at 57 years old.

28:11Average life expectancy in 1916, 55.

28:13Joseph Conrad is a badass, but he didn't see any of that sweet U-boat action.

28:19He just went out on the boat, and the boat came back.

28:24But you want to know who did see action on a Q-ship? You.

28:29Yep, Conrad is such a badass.

28:33He's making this podcast just like Heart of Darkness. Go first person.

28:40You're on a Q-ship.

28:41You scan the horizon and tap torpedo. Yep, you're dead.

28:45After the barlong, German leadership gave the official word that shooting merchant ships and asking questions later, totally cool.

28:51So yeah, you, you, you died.

28:56There, here, let's go again.

28:58You're on a Q-ship.

29:00You scan the horizon and you see a periscope.

29:08You signal to your crew to be ready.

29:12You're going to give the cue to start the panic party.

29:17As soon as that sub surfaces, you reach down to grab and torpedo.

29:22Turns out there was a fake periscope deployed to be right in your line of sight.

29:31What you missed was the real periscope watching your movements.

29:35And now the Germany knows what a pre-panic party means.

29:39looks like they just fired the moment they saw you give the signal that you were about to give the signal.

29:48Okay, okay, all right. Deep breath. We got this. One more time.

29:52You're on a Q ship.

29:53You scan the horizon and you see a periscope.

29:56You signal your crew to be ready.

29:58You're gonna cue the panic party just as soon as that sub surfaces.

30:03You reach down to grab a line when you see it.

30:07A U-boat emerging from the water.

30:10You give the word. Panic party.

30:13The crew runs to the lifeboats as you get your first glimpse of the German soldiers who are about to board.

30:21You give the signal to drop the panels and reveal the guns.

30:25They'll never see it coming. It's torpedo time!

30:28Yep, that was a real U-boat.

30:30But now the subs are on a bloody system.

30:33One of them coaxes the Q ships into their routine and the other one just blows them up from afar.

30:39Joseph Conrad lived until 1924 before he died in his home.

30:43You died five times in this episode alone. Well done.

30:471917 also brings the death of the Q ship's effectiveness.

30:52The word is out.

30:53This con is now burned.

30:55During the war, the Q ships were viewed as super effective.

30:58One of the most famous Q ship captains, Gordon Campbell, was even honored with the Victoria Cross.

31:06Britain's highest military decoration for valor.

31:09He takes a command position in the Royal Navy before retiring and heading into politics.

31:18He won a seat in 1931 and lost it in 1935.

31:25And as the years dragged on and another world war eclipsed his heroics, the legend of the Q ships began to fray.

31:32So now let me ask you the question that's been part of naval history since 1916.

31:39Were the Q ships a success or a failure?

31:43Here's the case for failure.

31:45178 U-boats were sunk during World War I.

31:51Aggressively, we could give Q ships credit for 17?

31:55Not exactly a giant number for something that some of the top brass considered an underhanded, embarrassing party trick.

32:05And the heyday of the ruse lasted barely a year. And then boom!

32:11Undercover sailors became sitting ducks.

32:15Q ships did trick the Germans, but when they realized that they were picking a card with a face-up deck, the thin ruse collapsed.

32:26The Royal Navy was right back to where they were in the very beginning.

32:32Germany out-engineered the British and the Brits didn't have time to develop a submarine nearly as deadly.

32:40But I think that framework is missing the point.

32:45Because yeah, 17 out of 178, not a great ratio. But consider this.

32:49Roughly 138 of those were sunk after 1916.

32:52That means Q ships sunk 42% of all U-boats up until that moment.

32:56They worked about as good as anything the vaunted British Navy had at the time.

33:02And don't discount the psychological advantage that comes with some kind of consequence.

33:09U-boats sunk over 5,000 Allied merchant ships during the war, killing over 15,000 sailors.

33:18Not to mention the loss of food and ammunition to both the front lines and the home front.

33:29That was all happening without any consequences or repercussions until the Q ships.

33:35Was it a ballsy all-in bluff? Yeah.

33:38Did it buy time? Absolutely.

33:41By the time the Germans did figure out how to deal with the Q ships, the Royal Navy finally had figured out an engineering solution to the U-boats.

33:53Now yes, it would be years until they had a comparable submarine that could take on a U-boat.

34:01But after 1916, they invented the first depth charge.

34:07Crude explosives tossed overboard, set to explode when they hit a certain depth.

34:12That, along with sea mines, ramming, and big boat gunfire, the Brits had mitigated their obvious disadvantage.

34:18And of course, in a process that begins with the sinking of the Lusitania and is exacerbated by the Baralong, the U. S.

34:27joins the war in December of 1917, turning the tide for good.

34:33America is the deciding factor of World War I.

34:37It provided everything the Allies needed at a time when the central powers were already strained.

34:44Doughboy military reinforcements, supplies, food, and money made the ending of the Great War inevitable.

34:51The U-boat sinks the Lusitania in 1915, America enters the war in 1917, and 19 months later, the whole war is over.

35:01The Q ships dared to deceive the deceivers, while highlighting the fine line between genius and recklessness.

35:09But what were the other choices? Surrender? Death?

35:13When you've got nothing else to lose, the only option just might be...

35:19The world's greatest con.

35:20This episode of World's Greatest Con is written by Will Sattelberg and me, Brian Brushwood, your humble host.

35:29Our executive producer is Justin Robert Young.

35:33Production and research by Dog & Pony Show Audio.

35:38Special thanks to The Life of a Q Ship Captain by Gordon Campbell, which along with contemporary articles made for the bulk of our research.

36:21So here's something new.

36:22I want to respond directly to the feedback you guys give us.

36:26Max wrote in about our Epcot series and says, you claim landowners, politicians, and press were marks as part of the con.

36:33I disagree that they're marks, and I'm failing to see how this was a con, or certainly the world's greatest con.

36:40Ultimately this was just a good story with some valid criticisms of the Disney company, and not a very good con.

36:51Honestly, thank you for the candid feedback Max, and everybody remember that you can write us directly at world's greatest con at gmail. com.

37:00Understand, we're on the hunt for the world's greatest con.

37:03Where there's a deception, where there's a power imbalance, where there's a plan that gets executed and screws somebody over, we're gonna tell that story if it's good.

37:11And the Epcot one I thought was very, very good.

37:16I mean heck, there are hurt feelings to this very day in Central Florida about this exact plan.

37:21You might have read about some of them in the newspapers.

37:25One of the biggest challenges is making sure that we don't fall into the trap of using the same definition of con again and again and again.

37:34Because then you get the same story again and again and again.

37:39So here's our agreement Max.

37:40We're gonna find the stories that are intensely personal.

37:44The ones that involve the most money, and every once in a while, the ones where the entire world hangs in the balance.

37:52We'll keep on making them, as long as you keep on listening.

37:55Alright gang, don't forget world's greatest con at gmail. com.

37:58We'll see you next time.